The Chicken Test is brought to you by W.R. and Bryce who live in Seattle. Bryce spends too much time on Twitter and posts photos to Flickr; sometimes you'll find him on Facebook. Look for both of them at BarCamps

DemoCamp & CaseCamp – it was a busy week

July 10, 2006 at 8:23 am ·

Windows Media Version (30megs) or MP4 version – h.264 for PSP (20 megs)

On a final note I’d like to address something that I have been thinking about with all the excitement over the past couple of days. Leesa Barnes of Podonomics, who also presented at CaseCamp, wrote in her blog that she was upset that I posted Andrew Baron’s entire speech on YouTube. (UPDATE: She has clarified her position below) She said that Eli promised that there would be no recording of the talks which honestly I never heard; if it was said and I missed it, sorry. Andrew never asked me personally to take it down but I did remove it as soon as Joey said that Andrew asked him to take his video down. I wrote Andrew and asked him if he could let me know if or when I could put the video back up. Andrew wrote me back very quickly to let me know that he thought about it and he decided that I could put it back up.

What I would like to address is that whether or not I was a responsible or irresponsible citizen journalist doesn’t really matter to me because I am not a citizen journalist that is a term that journalists apply to people;
I am a BarCamper.

See from what I understand CaseCamp is modeled on the principals of Barcamp.

BarCamp is an ad-hoc un-conference born from the desire for people to share and learn in an open environment. It is an intense event with discussions, demos and interaction from attendees.

Anyone with something to contribute or with the desire to learn is welcome and invited to join.

When you come, be prepared to share with barcampers.
When you leave, be prepared to share it with the world.

I think that Eli should clarify this with presenters at CaseCamp or call his event something else if that is not palatable to marketing people. We have worked hard to build an open, engaging community in a Toronto and it would really be a horrible shame if people latched on to the TorCamp train without paying the fare. Don’t get me wrong, Eli is a great guy and I know he gets what BarCamp is about and the value of the community.

I week ago I was sending messages back and forth with Kristan and Rehan off the TorCamp list because they decided they wanted to record and podcast the demos at DemoCamp. I told them it might not be a good idea because some of the presenters may not want their presentation podcasted. I was wrong.

Everyone loves the idea of social networks and Web 2.0 and community building when it is taking from big corporations like Google, Yahoo, or Microsoft but when it time for them to participate then it is a different story. If you want the insight, feedback and other benefits of participating in our community then be prepared to share; if you don’t want to share DON’T COME OUT.

Show Notes

Joey @ The Adventures of Accordion Guy in the 21st Century has a great post on CaseCamp and Andrew and Rocketboom.

Wild Apricot – web software for professional associations and non-profits

File Mobile – The best way to store, organize, share, and blog your media.

the firestoker project – finally, we can all be human

Spaceballs (1987)

The almighty Conceptshare and their plans for BarCamp Earth at the Edome

oh and of course Rocketboom

There are excellent points in the comments don’t miss them.

  • While the meeting was public it doesn't mean you have the right and license to video tape without informed consent. The content producer could be sharing confidential information, intellectual property and copyright subject matter. There will be varying opinions on this but in the case of the presenters they are the publishers of content. They have a right to know that they will be videotaped ahead of time. They should decide to what extend they want their content recorded and published. Check out the Creative Commons discussion boards as this debate has occurred before and the general sense was that the presenters had copyright rights.

    I will add these new comments to my blog also.

    Best wishes,
    Chris Herbert.
  • I think you all need to understand what a public meeting is. It’ll get recorded and reported if people feel like it. Do not say anything at a public meeting you would not want reprinted on the front page of the New York Times or read back to you on the witness stand. There’s nothing for Eli to negotiate or wrap his head around; he just needs to accept reality. No “implicit understanding” is required; you shoud all explicitly understand that what you say at a public meeting can be and will be reported.
  • This is a very healthy and interesting exchange! We are all human and this case we are learning what is the better way to communicate and extend the nCamp physical experience to the web. I guess a good starting point is to ask everyone, perhaps a poll on CaseCamp, to what extent to the values of social media (open source, sharing, collaborating etc.) apply in a setting like nCamp? I don't know but clearly setting guidelines from the beginning is ideal and communicating them consistently and often. Look at the bottom of this page and you'll see that my post will be reviewed, edited and maybe deleted if the blog owner decides. Shouldn't the same approach be used for nCamps?
  • Sharing is the nature of beast within the camp community. Sharing is a good thing with the audience in attendence. I don't think anyone has a problem presenting to peers in that fashion and "opening up the code".

    One model standard conference model these unconferences should take into serious consideration is that recording or publishing materials should NOT follow simple implied consent, they should adhere to informed consent with such video recordings.

    I don't think anyone is questioning the sharing aspect Bryce. But to say "don't come out" is missing the point. The point here is that sharing extended beyond reasonable expectations here. And, that will limit the kind of sharing and case studies that may take place in the future of CaseCamp.

    It looked like the video was not in plain view while recording. It also seems like there was a suprise element when it was posted. That is the nature of the beast with implied consent.
  • Eli
    Hola Bryce!

    Responding to your thoughts on recording items at CaseCamp...

    When we did the first event a few weeks ago I thought it would be great to video all the presentations and put them up on the site to share with others. After running the idea by some of the presenters (Kate Trgovac & Nicole Mondville in-particular) it became clear that they were planning to share what could be seen by office peers as sensitive and competitive information (like the costs of a campaign, results, etc). The general opinion was that if we were to record presentation for online distrubution, presenters would edit out a lot of the material that would have made the presentations so compelling to the community. So in the interests of have the best material out display and not neutering CaseCamp I made the decision that I would not to video or audio record, no matter how juicy the content was.

    Part of the reason Andrew and Daniel were capable of speaking so openly at the last CaseCamp was the comfort in the ad-hoc community of the event. I think there is an implicit understanding that participants aren't present to use the words of presenters against them in a malicious way. Remember, marketers can be a competitive breed.

    The fact that Joey asked Andrew's permission to post the videos after what was clearly a cathartic and personal presentation is a good thing.

    So you can see that one of the challenges I've wrestled with at CaseCamp is how to make the event 'safe' for people to share all the specifics of their work without compomising the Camp part.

    Any ideas on how we can do this better? I'm all ears... ;)

    ES
  • Thank you for your clarification Leesa. I should be clear that I did not intend to single you out. The attitudes I have described have occasionally surfaced at DemoCamp lately and I hope that people understand the nature and value of our community.
  • Clarification....I wasn't upset. I was miffed (according to dictionary.com, this means annoyed, in a huff, petulant). It meant I couldn't enjoy much search engine traffic and become a star myself :)

    Actually, I did enjoy some attention when you pulled your video down. I had 24-hours of really great traffic since I was one of the few people to have a commentary posted about the event. Then, you put the video back up. (**sigh**) I do miss all the attention.

    The organizer said he wouldn't record the event and he shared this with me as a speaker. That certainly doesn't stop anyone else doing so. You see, I too recorded the event, only instead of using a digital recorder, I used my pen and paper. Does that make me irresponsible or unethical? Certainly not.

    The only thing I agree with is your comment about participating in social media. If you don't want people to talk, record or share your ideas, don't take part in the conversations. It's that simple.
  • What the hell am I looking at? When does this happen in the movie...is this just some sort of quantum computing, Perl function.

    Very, very eerie the prediciton that there won't be many girls (there will be some).

    Don't forget the really weird moment of the Microsoft guy doing his presentation using a Mac.
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