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	<title>Comments on: DemoCamp &amp; CaseCamp &#8211; it was a busy week</title>
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	<link>http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/</link>
	<description>Musings from an irregular web and software experience designer and his chicken.</description>
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		<title>By: Leesa</title>
		<link>http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/comment-page-1/#comment-75205</link>
		<dc:creator>Leesa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/#comment-75205</guid>
		<description>Clarification....I wasn&#039;t upset. I was miffed (according to &lt;a href=&quot;http://dictionary.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;dictionary.com&lt;/a&gt;, this means annoyed, in a huff, petulant). It meant I couldn&#039;t enjoy much search engine traffic and become a star myself :)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Actually, I did enjoy some attention when you pulled your video down. I had 24-hours of really great traffic since I was one of the few people to have a commentary posted about the event. Then, you put the video back up. (**sigh**) I do miss all the attention.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The organizer said he wouldn&#039;t record the event and he shared this with me as a speaker. That certainly doesn&#039;t stop anyone else doing so. You see, I too recorded the event, only instead of using a digital recorder, I used my pen and paper. Does that make me irresponsible or unethical? Certainly not.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The only thing I agree with is your comment about participating in social media. If you don&#039;t want people to talk, record or share your ideas, don&#039;t take part in the conversations. It&#039;s that simple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clarification&#8230;.I wasn&#39;t upset. I was miffed (according to <a href="http://dictionary.com" rel="nofollow">dictionary.com</a>, this means annoyed, in a huff, petulant). It meant I couldn&#39;t enjoy much search engine traffic and become a star myself :)</p>
<p>Actually, I did enjoy some attention when you pulled your video down. I had 24-hours of really great traffic since I was one of the few people to have a commentary posted about the event. Then, you put the video back up. (**sigh**) I do miss all the attention.</p>
<p>The organizer said he wouldn&#39;t record the event and he shared this with me as a speaker. That certainly doesn&#39;t stop anyone else doing so. You see, I too recorded the event, only instead of using a digital recorder, I used my pen and paper. Does that make me irresponsible or unethical? Certainly not.</p>
<p>The only thing I agree with is your comment about participating in social media. If you don&#39;t want people to talk, record or share your ideas, don&#39;t take part in the conversations. It&#39;s that simple.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Herbert</title>
		<link>http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/comment-page-1/#comment-627</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Herbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/#comment-627</guid>
		<description>While the meeting was public it doesn&#039;t mean you have the right and license to video tape without informed consent. The content producer could be sharing confidential information, intellectual property and copyright subject matter. There will be varying opinions on this but in the case of the presenters they are the publishers of content. They have a right to know that they will be videotaped ahead of time. They should decide to what extend they want their content recorded and published. Check out the Creative Commons discussion boards as this debate has occurred before and the general sense was that the presenters had copyright rights.

I will add these new comments to my blog also.

Best wishes,
Chris Herbert.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the meeting was public it doesn&#8217;t mean you have the right and license to video tape without informed consent. The content producer could be sharing confidential information, intellectual property and copyright subject matter. There will be varying opinions on this but in the case of the presenters they are the publishers of content. They have a right to know that they will be videotaped ahead of time. They should decide to what extend they want their content recorded and published. Check out the Creative Commons discussion boards as this debate has occurred before and the general sense was that the presenters had copyright rights.</p>
<p>I will add these new comments to my blog also.</p>
<p>Best wishes,<br />
Chris Herbert.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/comment-page-1/#comment-578</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/#comment-578</guid>
		<description>I think you all need to understand what a &lt;em&gt;public&lt;/em&gt; meeting is. Itâ€™ll get recorded and reported if people feel like it. Do not say anything at a public meeting you would not want reprinted on the front page of the New York Times or read back to you on the witness stand. Thereâ€™s nothing for Eli to negotiate or wrap his head around; he just needs to accept reality. No â€œimplicit understandingâ€ is required; you shoud all explicitly understand that what you say at a public meeting can be &lt;em&gt;and will be&lt;/em&gt; reported.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you all need to understand what a <em>public</em> meeting is. Itâ€™ll get recorded and reported if people feel like it. Do not say anything at a public meeting you would not want reprinted on the front page of the New York Times or read back to you on the witness stand. Thereâ€™s nothing for Eli to negotiate or wrap his head around; he just needs to accept reality. No â€œimplicit understandingâ€ is required; you shoud all explicitly understand that what you say at a public meeting can be <em>and will be</em> reported.</p>
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		<title>By: My Web 2.0 Experience &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Chicken or the Egg?</title>
		<link>http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/comment-page-1/#comment-537</link>
		<dc:creator>My Web 2.0 Experience &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Chicken or the Egg?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/#comment-537</guid>
		<description>[...] A very interesting debate is shaping up regarding the recording of a recent case study presentation at CaseCamp in Toronto.Â The debate can be read on The Chicken Test blog so I won&#8217;t repeat the details. I guess what confuses me a bit is the apparent lack of judgement of this person and what appears to be a double standard. (To his credit, he has apologized, sort of, in a recent post. I&#8217;m not too keen on his using the word &#8220;heard&#8221; instead of &#8220;listened&#8221;. Minor/Major distinction?) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A very interesting debate is shaping up regarding the recording of a recent case study presentation at CaseCamp in Toronto.Â The debate can be read on The Chicken Test blog so I won&#8217;t repeat the details. I guess what confuses me a bit is the apparent lack of judgement of this person and what appears to be a double standard. (To his credit, he has apologized, sort of, in a recent post. I&#8217;m not too keen on his using the word &#8220;heard&#8221; instead of &#8220;listened&#8221;. Minor/Major distinction?) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Herbert</title>
		<link>http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/comment-page-1/#comment-536</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Herbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/#comment-536</guid>
		<description>This is a very healthy and interesting exchange! We are all human and this case we are learning what is the better way to communicate and extend the nCamp physical experience to the web. I guess a good starting point is to ask everyone, perhaps a poll on CaseCamp, to what extent to the values of social media (open source, sharing, collaborating etc.) apply in a setting like nCamp? I don&#039;t know but clearly setting guidelines from the beginning is ideal and communicating them consistently and often. Look at the bottom of this page and you&#039;ll see that my post will be reviewed, edited and maybe deleted if the blog owner decides. Shouldn&#039;t the same approach be used for nCamps?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very healthy and interesting exchange! We are all human and this case we are learning what is the better way to communicate and extend the nCamp physical experience to the web. I guess a good starting point is to ask everyone, perhaps a poll on CaseCamp, to what extent to the values of social media (open source, sharing, collaborating etc.) apply in a setting like nCamp? I don&#8217;t know but clearly setting guidelines from the beginning is ideal and communicating them consistently and often. Look at the bottom of this page and you&#8217;ll see that my post will be reviewed, edited and maybe deleted if the blog owner decides. Shouldn&#8217;t the same approach be used for nCamps?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Seaton</title>
		<link>http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/comment-page-1/#comment-461</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Seaton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 04:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/#comment-461</guid>
		<description>Sharing is the nature of beast within the camp community. Sharing is a good thing with the audience in attendence.  I don&#039;t think anyone has a problem presenting to peers in that fashion and &quot;opening up the code&quot;. 

One model standard conference model these unconferences should take into serious consideration is that recording or publishing materials should NOT follow simple implied consent, they should adhere to informed consent with such video recordings. 

I don&#039;t think anyone is questioning the sharing aspect Bryce. But to say &quot;don&#039;t come out&quot; is missing the point. The point here is that sharing extended beyond reasonable expectations here.  And, that will limit the kind of sharing and case studies that may take place in the future of CaseCamp.

It looked like the video was not in plain view while recording. It also seems like there was a suprise element when it was posted. That is the nature of the beast with implied consent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sharing is the nature of beast within the camp community. Sharing is a good thing with the audience in attendence.  I don&#8217;t think anyone has a problem presenting to peers in that fashion and &#8220;opening up the code&#8221;. </p>
<p>One model standard conference model these unconferences should take into serious consideration is that recording or publishing materials should NOT follow simple implied consent, they should adhere to informed consent with such video recordings. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone is questioning the sharing aspect Bryce. But to say &#8220;don&#8217;t come out&#8221; is missing the point. The point here is that sharing extended beyond reasonable expectations here.  And, that will limit the kind of sharing and case studies that may take place in the future of CaseCamp.</p>
<p>It looked like the video was not in plain view while recording. It also seems like there was a suprise element when it was posted. That is the nature of the beast with implied consent.</p>
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		<title>By: CaseCamp 2 at Singer.to</title>
		<link>http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/comment-page-1/#comment-457</link>
		<dc:creator>CaseCamp 2 at Singer.to</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/#comment-457</guid>
		<description>[...] Leesa and Bryce discuss how to maintain the integrity of CaseCamp with the presence of recorders [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Leesa and Bryce discuss how to maintain the integrity of CaseCamp with the presence of recorders [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eli</title>
		<link>http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/comment-page-1/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 03:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/#comment-452</guid>
		<description>Hola Bryce!

Responding to your thoughts on recording items at CaseCamp...  

When we did the first event a few weeks ago I thought it would be great to video all the presentations and put them up on the site to share with others.  After running the idea by some of the presenters (Kate Trgovac &amp; Nicole Mondville in-particular) it became clear that they were planning to share what could be seen by office peers as sensitive and competitive information (like the costs of a campaign, results, etc).  The general opinion was that if we were to record presentation for online distrubution, presenters would edit out a lot of the material that would have made the presentations so compelling to the community.  So in the interests of have the best material out display and not neutering CaseCamp I made the decision that I would not to video or audio record, no matter how juicy the content was.

Part of the reason Andrew and Daniel were capable of speaking so openly at the last CaseCamp was the comfort in the ad-hoc community of the event.  I think there is an implicit understanding that participants aren&#039;t present to use the words of presenters against them in a malicious way.  Remember, marketers can be a competitive breed.

The fact that Joey asked Andrew&#039;s permission to post the videos after what was clearly a cathartic and personal presentation is a good thing.  

So you can see that one of the challenges I&#039;ve wrestled with at CaseCamp is how to make the event &#039;safe&#039; for people to share all the specifics of their work without compomising the Camp part.  

Any ideas on how we can do this better?  I&#039;m all ears...  ;)

ES</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hola Bryce!</p>
<p>Responding to your thoughts on recording items at CaseCamp&#8230;  </p>
<p>When we did the first event a few weeks ago I thought it would be great to video all the presentations and put them up on the site to share with others.  After running the idea by some of the presenters (Kate Trgovac &amp; Nicole Mondville in-particular) it became clear that they were planning to share what could be seen by office peers as sensitive and competitive information (like the costs of a campaign, results, etc).  The general opinion was that if we were to record presentation for online distrubution, presenters would edit out a lot of the material that would have made the presentations so compelling to the community.  So in the interests of have the best material out display and not neutering CaseCamp I made the decision that I would not to video or audio record, no matter how juicy the content was.</p>
<p>Part of the reason Andrew and Daniel were capable of speaking so openly at the last CaseCamp was the comfort in the ad-hoc community of the event.  I think there is an implicit understanding that participants aren&#8217;t present to use the words of presenters against them in a malicious way.  Remember, marketers can be a competitive breed.</p>
<p>The fact that Joey asked Andrew&#8217;s permission to post the videos after what was clearly a cathartic and personal presentation is a good thing.  </p>
<p>So you can see that one of the challenges I&#8217;ve wrestled with at CaseCamp is how to make the event &#8217;safe&#8217; for people to share all the specifics of their work without compomising the Camp part.  </p>
<p>Any ideas on how we can do this better?  I&#8217;m all ears&#8230;  ;)</p>
<p>ES</p>
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		<title>By: W.R.</title>
		<link>http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/comment-page-1/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator>W.R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 22:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/#comment-450</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your clarification Leesa. I should be clear that I did not intend to single you out. The attitudes I have described have occasionally surfaced at DemoCamp lately and I hope that people understand the nature and value of our community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your clarification Leesa. I should be clear that I did not intend to single you out. The attitudes I have described have occasionally surfaced at DemoCamp lately and I hope that people understand the nature and value of our community.</p>
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		<title>By: Leesa</title>
		<link>http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/comment-page-1/#comment-448</link>
		<dc:creator>Leesa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/#comment-448</guid>
		<description>Clarification....I wasn&#039;t upset. I was miffed (according to dictionary.com, this means annoyed, in a huff, petulant). It meant I couldn&#039;t enjoy much search engine traffic and become a star myself :)

Actually, I did enjoy some attention when you pulled your video down. I had 24-hours of really great traffic since I was one of the few people to have a commentary posted about the event. Then, you put the video back up. (**sigh**) I do miss all the attention.

The organizer said he wouldn&#039;t record the event and he shared this with me as a speaker. That certainly doesn&#039;t stop anyone else doing so. You see, I too recorded the event, only instead of using a digital recorder, I used my pen and paper. Does that make me irresponsible or unethical? Certainly not.

The only thing I agree with is your comment about participating in social media. If you don&#039;t want people to talk, record or share your ideas, don&#039;t take part in the conversations. It&#039;s that simple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clarification&#8230;.I wasn&#8217;t upset. I was miffed (according to dictionary.com, this means annoyed, in a huff, petulant). It meant I couldn&#8217;t enjoy much search engine traffic and become a star myself :)</p>
<p>Actually, I did enjoy some attention when you pulled your video down. I had 24-hours of really great traffic since I was one of the few people to have a commentary posted about the event. Then, you put the video back up. (**sigh**) I do miss all the attention.</p>
<p>The organizer said he wouldn&#8217;t record the event and he shared this with me as a speaker. That certainly doesn&#8217;t stop anyone else doing so. You see, I too recorded the event, only instead of using a digital recorder, I used my pen and paper. Does that make me irresponsible or unethical? Certainly not.</p>
<p>The only thing I agree with is your comment about participating in social media. If you don&#8217;t want people to talk, record or share your ideas, don&#8217;t take part in the conversations. It&#8217;s that simple.</p>
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		<title>By: David Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/comment-page-1/#comment-445</link>
		<dc:creator>David Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thechickentest.com/2006/07/democamp-casecamp-it-was-a-busy-week/#comment-445</guid>
		<description>What the hell am I looking at? When does this happen in the movie...is this just some sort of quantum computing, Perl function.

Very, very eerie the prediciton that there won&#039;t be many girls (there will be some).

Don&#039;t forget the really weird moment of the Microsoft guy doing his presentation using a Mac.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the hell am I looking at? When does this happen in the movie&#8230;is this just some sort of quantum computing, Perl function.</p>
<p>Very, very eerie the prediciton that there won&#8217;t be many girls (there will be some).</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget the really weird moment of the Microsoft guy doing his presentation using a Mac.</p>
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